LTO No.524March 11, 1974

By Maria & Moses David

(From a taped discussion about a stubborn fish!:)

1. (MARIA; WE ARE DISCUSSING BRIAN whom I just went to visit this afternoon for three hours for the first time alone to try and get him to accept me.) Well, describe it play by play: What happened, Honey? (Maria: Well, I went out of our house to meet him out front at his car and he made a big protestation that I couldn't leave you.)—You were both already in the car. (Maria: he said,

2. ("YOU CAN'T LEAVE DAVID!" but I said, "He's fine! Becky is taking care of him‚ and she will take good care of him!") We were both supposed to go‚ but I was real sick with a hangover because I had drunk a little too much last night, so I just couldn't go I was so sick. But I figured the Lord must have rigged it that way so she'd have to go alone and wipe out his last excuse and his last bit of inhibition, if he had any, just because of my being personally present. (Maria: So he didn't say much the rest of the way. He said, "Excuse me if I don't talk, but ever since Tuesday

3. (I HAVE JUST HAD THIS BAND AROUND MY HEAD!" You know what he said!—He said‚ "It's like, I guess, my spirit's gone!"—Those are the very words he used!)—Isn't that terrible? (Maria: He said, "You talk and I answer." I said, "Well, why don't you try talking and I'll answer." But he just laughed. He had the radio on, so he just listened to the radio most of the time there and we didn't talk too much.)

4. HE IS TURNING MORE AND MORE OF A DEAF EAR TO THE WORDS OF GOD and to the Lord, God's message as well as His love, see? It used to be he wanted to hear everything, discuss everything, and now he doesn't even want to hear anything anymore! See, he's got the message and he has just rejected it. And now finally, if this is finally, God may give him another chance, but I don't know. He'd have to deal with him pretty severely, I think, before he'll ever humble. But God has given him every opportunity to receive His love. It's just like accepting Christ, God's love in Christ.

5. ACCEPTING GOD'S LOVE IN MARIA WAS JUST LIKE ACCEPTING GOD'S LOVE IN CHRIST, and accepting her love was just like accepting God's love, because it is God's love. She doesn't love him otherwise. She's only trying to win him for the Lord. This is what he needs and this is what he wanted, and yet he is not willing to go all the way.

6. HE'S JUST LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE YOU WITNESS TO: They agree with everything. Yes, they know it's true, they agree they are a sinner and they believe in the Bible as the Word of God. "Yes, I believe in God; yes, I believe in Christ and I believe He is God's Son." They believe it all, they know it is true.

7. SO WE SAY, "WELL, WILL YOU RECEIVE HIM NOW, take the final step, personally receive Him?" But they say, "Oh well‚ not now, not today, some other time." Or, "Well, I just can't go quite that far."—They just can't quite commit themselves, you know. (Maria: So I said to him while we were still in the living room‚ I said,

8. ("BRIAN, YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU JUST DON'T WANT GOD'S GIFT the way He is giving it to you. You want something better, you want a better gift. You can't do that. You have to take what God offers you, and you can't say‚ 'This is wrong with it, and it is not permanent‚ and that is wrong with it,' and so on and so forth. You have to accept what God is giving at the moment and then He'll give you something better later.") Now see‚ this is also a spiritual parallel:

9. SO MANY PEOPLE SAY, "WELL‚ I'LL BELIEVE IN GOD IF YOU SHOW HIM TO ME. I've got to see Him first. Seeing is believing, see: If I could just see the proof that God exists or that Christ really is His Son. If I could just see the proof that accepting Christ would really do the truck. If He does this and this an so and so for me first so I can see it, then I'll believe and receive Him, see? If he could just help me." We used to have people like that in church: "Well, if He could just help me stop smoking or stop drinking or running around with women.

10. IF HE WOULD JUST CHANGE ME FIRST, THEN I WOULD RECEIVE HIM." Isn't this ridiculous? "See, if you just give me the blessings of salvation first and make the changes first, then I'll believe it and then I'll receive Him." So many people have done that way‚ especially a lot of people who have had a lot of experience in church. So you see he wants to see it first. He says he is willing to thank God if God will just show him a girl and he'll believe it then and he'll thank God then, but not until he's got the girl.

11. WELL, GOD TRIED TO GIVE HIM HIS OWN GIRL, THINK OF IT!—GOD'S OWN WIFE! But he won't even accept the wife of God and the love of God in her! (Maria: It's really flat rejection.) Do you know what I got from the Lord? In fact I almost prayed, I sort of made a deal with God, that until he accepts Maria all the way he will never get the girl! I almost believe he'll never get any other girl—that was really the way it came to me.

12. HE'LL NEVER GET ANY OTHER GIRL, and that has proven true—in how many weeks now have we known him? (Maria: Seven weeks since he has broken up with Helen.) Yes, seven weeks since he has broken up with Helen, and at least three or four weeks now since Maria's first experience with him in which he was first tested to see if he'd receive the love all the way. I prayed,

13. "LORD, YOU MUST COME FIRST! You are not playing second fiddle to anybody! God, You have to be first, and if Maria is going to be his temporary girl, if You are going to show him Your love through Maria and give him Maria's love, Your love, then You keep him from getting any other kind of love in between at all. Until he has received her love, Your love, all the way, don't let him have another girl."—And he hasn't had a single date or another girl‚ nothing since then, and he has nearly been going crazy because he can't understand why! Even when the girls give him their phone numbers and everything else and some of them are begging to come and live in his flat, he just can't do it. (Maria: He says he doesn't know what has happened to his other girl, Irene.) Think of it!

14. IT'S JUST LIKE HE'S JINXED, HEXED OR CURSED! It's just like I have pronounced a curse on him, in a sense, if he doesn't accept. Well, it's just like when you are witnessing too: If they reject Christ they have made their decision or rejection, then we are ministers of condemnation, and we lay it on thick: "You're going to Hell now and you may drop dead any minute! God has given you every chance, and He doesn't have to give you any more!"

15. WE HAVE PRACTICALLY CURSED THEM, THAT THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO GET ANYWHERE UNTIL THEY ACCEPT THE LORD, and it may be their last chance so it is the same thing. I practically cursed him, that he would never get another girl until he had given God first chance. This has always been his problem, putting women first. (Maria: Yes, like Helen! He goes on and on about how much he loves Helen [who had jilted him]!) He said the only one who could possibly erase his love for Helen is Leslie, if even she could ever do it!)—And she jilted him this week! (Maria: And he has some doubts about whether even she'd be the one!) Just like I thought—I told you I thought she would jilt him! (Maria: So I said,

16. ("IF DAVID DIDN'T EXIST NOW, WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE, ME OR HELEN?"—AND HE SAID, "HELEN!" He said, "Well, I just have that love for Helen and I can't help it. I'm in love with her and you've shown me what kind of girl I want." He's so contradictory! He said, "You've shown me what kind of girl I want to marry, but I love Helen and Helen has first place.")

17. IT IS JUST ABSOLUTELY INSANE! IT'S JUST AS INSANE AS THE SINNER REJECTING CHRIST!—That's insanity! It's insanity! It's the absolute ultimate in insane stubbornness and willfulness to reject the Lord! "My head is bloody but unbowed! I am the captain of my fate and the master of my soul!"—That's what the stubborn man cries out! Remember that old poem—"Invictus!"—Or "The Unconquerable!" We used to have to memorize it in high school and I hated that thing, but I have seen it fulfilled so many times.

18. SOME PEOPLE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH GOD DOES, EVEN IF HE BEATS THEM OVER THE HEAD, THEY'LL STILL NOT BOW THEIR HEADS TO HIM, they'll still not acknowledge Him as their Captain or their Master, though their head is bloody but unbowed! Well, that's just exactly what he is going to get, exactly! (Maria: He said‚ "I'm worried about my job now—it's pretty hard.")—Because he has rejected God's love!

19. LET'S FACE IT, EVERY SINNER WHO REJECTS SALVATION IS CURSED, RIGHT? John says so. "They are already condemned‚" he says, they are already accursed. (John 3:18.) Either you believe it or not. He that believeth not the Son is condemned already‚ he says in the third chapter. They are already under condemnation, they are already accursed. And this is what I said: I said‚

20. "LORD, IT'S JUST LIKE ANYBODY REJECTING CHRIST—IF HE WILL NOT RECEIVE MARIA all the way as an example of Your ultimate in love and his ultimate in surrender to Your love‚ then let him be accursed and never find another woman, because in rejecting her he has rejected You! I think he is going to discover before long, after weeks and weeks, that he doesn't get another woman and he doesn't get Helen, and that something is really wrong, and it may even drive him back insane again! He is going to crack up again because he rejected the Lord!

21. LOOK HOW GOD TRIED TO HELP THAT POOR BOY! If he goes to Hell he'll never have an excuse to give God! God will everything He could for him! What an example of the love of God! How could you illustrate the love of Christ more to a sinner? They know all about love and sex and this is what they are after. They just want to "get it in" and that's it, that's the ultimate. Yet here is a true love given so unselfishly that you are begging him to come in. (Maria: I did today!)

22. JUST AS CHRIST IS PLEADING TO COME IN, she is a female representative begging like He is to come into their hearts Himself. Though it is the opposite sexual relationship where Christ is the lover and the sinner is the prospective bride or lover, in either direction the love is the same.

23. CHRIST STANDS AT THEIR HEART'S DOOR AND BEGS TO COME IN. In this case it was his heart's door, Brian's. She was standing at his door knocking, begging to come in. The love of God was loving him through her. Here is this kind of love that the world claims they are seeking, this is what they say they want. But when it comes up to the absolute ultimate of it, they are not willing to pay the price!—And do you know why?

24. HE IS CLINGING TO HIS OWN SELF–RIGHTEOUSNESS, HIS OWN GOOD WORKS! He doesn't want to be obligated to God. He doesn't want to have to thank God for Maria‚ that he had the ultimate love from her. He is clinging to this ridiculous hypocritical self-righteousness that just because he doesn't plug it in therefore he is righteous!

25. HE CAN LIE THERE FOR HOURS AND MAKE LOVE TO HER and do everything else and have her suck him & everything else and do everything but actually fuck her so he can cling to that holier-than–thou sanctimonious, "Well, but I didn't do it!"

26. THAT'S SO MUCH LIKE THE CHURCHES! They will do everything else in the way of spiritual fornication with the world and idolatry and everything, but just because they go to church on Sunday, that saves them! They are alright as long as they pretend to be Christians and claim that they have faith and claim they are saved and go to church on Sunday. It doesn't matter what the hell they do the rest of the time, it's that hypocritical! Isn't that something? It's such an illustration of the spirit!

27. (MARIA: I PINNED HIM RIGHT DOWN: I said, "If David wasn't even here anymore, who would you choose, who do you love most?—Do you love me?"—And everything was Helen, Helen!) That was exactly the answer I expected him to give. He is insane on the subject, because, you see, to cling to Helen is to cling to his own works and his own self-righteousness, the works of the flesh.

28. HELEN IS THE WORK OF THE FLESH, SHE IS HIS OWN SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Maria: He said, "I don't condemn Helen for not doing it with me." She upholds his self-righteousness. She wouldn't do anything like that either, see? He says, "Helen—I appreciate that from Helen. I appreciate that she didn't. I knowledge it comes from her family background, her upbringing, but I appreciate that she is that way.")

29. SEE, WHEN THEY WERE THE MOST IN LOVE SHE STILL REJECTED HIM! Helen wouldn't let him make love to her or anything, which shows she really didn't love him, she really didn't love him all the way. (Maria: He said, "If she had done it, then I would have known that she would have done it with other men and I wouldn't have wanted her anyway.")

30. I CAN SEE NOW WHY GOD HAD THE TWO CASES: HE HAD TO HAVE THE CASE OF BRIAN THE REJECTER AND ARTHUR THE RECEIVER. They are both rather childlike‚ but Arthur so sweetly and childlike just said, "I don't understand it, but I just take it by faith. I just receive it in great love and sweetness and kindness and thankfulness." He is so sweet to Maria and just receives her love‚ God's LOVE, BY FAITH. He doesn't question it‚ doesn't understand it‚ doesn't have to reason and figure it all out.

31. BRIAN IS ALWAYS TRYING TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT and understand every little detail. He is just like the typical reasoning arguing sinner. But Arthur like a little child receives it all by faith. Isn't that amazing? It's the most spiritual! Oh wow! (Maria: Look, look!—Justice!—Brian represents justice.—But God said He would have mercy, not sacrifice—not mere justice!) Yes, how many times I have quoted him that Scripture! I said,

32. "BRIAN, CAN'T YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE? THE DEVIL IS ALL FOR JUSTICE, he is the prosecuting attorney‚ he is for the law! He is the "accuser of the saints!" (Rev.12:10) The Devil is the most legalistic creature in the Universe! He wants everybody to stick to the law, and anybody that breaks the law he wants God to crack down on them and punish them on the spot! The Devil is all for justice and the law! Like the System, he provokes them to do evil, then jails them for doing it! Isn't that amazing?

33. BUT IT'S GOD‚ WHO EVEN MADE THE LAWS AND THE RULES‚ WHO WANTS YOU TO HAVE MERCY AND FORGIVENESS AND SALVATION! (Maria: Look what Arthur is: He represents the sheep, the sheep that follows the Shepherd, in spite of his pride he still submits. Which is the greatest test? He is proud and yet he does submit!) Yes! Arthur the Lord pictures as a big ram, a leader of sheep, a real king of the sheep, so in spite of his pride he follows.

34. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT PICTURE WE GOT ABOUT BRIAN as the knight who lowered his lance to you. (Maria: Maybe that was for Arthur—but it said, "Lord Brian" at the end.) Well, it could be that the Lord was showing what Brian was supposed to do. See, this is the ideal‚ the picture that God wanted him to fulfill, this is what he should have done. We got this fairly early in the thing, didn't we?—After the first couple of sessions? It was a couple of weeks ago, wasn't it? It was after the first couple of days or so. It looked pretty hopeless already, but I got this and got real encouraged. (Maria:

35. (IT MIGHT STILL BE THE FUTURE, because we couldn't see how.) It could happen yet. As long as there is life there is hope—if that's not his last chance. (Maria: We thought today that he was at the end of his rope, you know? I said to him, "What do you have to lose? You are downhearted now and you say you feel dead, so what do you have to lose?")

36. HIS OWN SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAT'S WHAT HE'S GOT TO LOSE! His own virtue, his own virginity—or protested virginity! You see, self-righteousness is the greatest sin of all sins. Now the world doesn't see that, and even the church doesn't see that, and the Scribes and the Pharisees sure didn't see it!—They even crucified their own Messiah to prove they didn't need Him! They are so blind they can't seem to see the fact that their own self-righteousness, their own righteous living, self-righteousness and all that‚ is the greatest of all sins.

37. PAUL GOES ON AND ON ABOUT THIS‚ Epistle after Epistle, showing that it is impossible for them to be saved as long as their own self-righteousness is standing in the way. It was in the Jews' way because they wouldn't accept Christ as a free gift, God's love and salvation as a free gift. They had to work it out‚ even a little bit. The concision also for example: "Well, yes‚ Christ is the Messiah and we've received Him‚ but we've got to have a little of our own righteousness." (Maria: He said again,

38. ("IT'S ADULTERY!" I said, "Brian, don't you believe what David and I are telling you‚ don't you believe us?" So he absolutely rejects us in not even believing what we say. He is telling us we are liars, so therefore we are great sinners and he is righteous!

39. (SO HE SATISFIED ME IN THE LIVING ROOM, see‚ and then he said, "Love, are you happy?" I mean it was his own!) He's trying again to get away without doing any more. Maria was telling me how they first sat down in the living room there together and were again making love. So he satisfied you at the first there? This is when you did all this preaching? (Maria: That's when I told him—I kept preaching to him almost to the very end, and I said,

40. ("BRIAN, YOU ARE IN THIS CONDITION BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ACCEPTING GOD'S GIFT!" That was one of the first things I said to him when I had my arms around him in the chair while he was drinking his tea. I said, "You're not accepting God's gift." He said, "What's that?" I said, "Me!" You're saying it isn't good enough, you want something different!")

41. HOW OFTEN YOU HAVE WITNESSED TO SOMEONE AND THEY HAVE SEEN YOUR JOY, your utmost happiness, and they have seen your life, your way of living, and it's like Heaven on earth, and they've heard your message‚ which is total salvation, total freedom, total Heaven on earth and everything else, and they can even see it with their own eyes and hear with their own ears! Yet with everything you offer, the whole thing on a silver platter, they say, "Well no, not yet. I want to cling to my own self-righteousness a little longer." (Maria: Yes!—"I want to do this and that and the other thing first.")

42. "—YES!—BUT I'M SAVING MYSELF FOR MY HELEN, MY DEVIL, MY OWN LIFE." (Maria: —Yes—"I want to do this and that and another thing before I forsake all and join the Colony. Let me first do this and that—I want to do something different.") How many people have you talked to that do that.—Even when they can see it all and it's all just offered to them, they still reject!

43. IT ALL GOES BACK TO THAT ATTITUDE THAT THEY KNOW BETTER THAN GOD! They've got a little self-righteous streak and there is something they want to hang onto. They are not willing to surrender all, they are not willing to totally surrender and totally commit. Again it is the same principle as Romans 1: They know it, they even see that He is God, they can see it in His handiwork and everything. But they don't want to have to recognize Him as God!

44. IF BRIAN WOULD GO ALL THE WAY WITH HER, THEN HE WOULD FEEL OBLIGATED TO HER for the rest of his life, just like the picture we saw of the knight. He would feel that, as he is so high principled in some ways, idealistic, etc., his high ideals would bind him to her forever! He would feel obligated to her forever, right? If he fucks her all the way he would feel, "Well‚ now this is my wife and now I have to be faithful and true and loyal to her and follow her."—And that's exactly the picture we got of him in the knight thing! Have you read it yet, "Lord Byron's Surrender"? It's a beautiful thing, and this is the picture that God sees, God's ideal, the way God wants it.

45. BUT THIS IS WHAT BRIAN IS FIGHTING, SEE? This very thing that was pictured in "Lord Byron" is the thing he is fighting, case he knows that once he lowers his lance to her and goes in, he is in forever and there is no escaping! He would have to pledge to her his love and loyalty forever! (Maria:

46. (IT'S SORT OF WHAT ARTHUR IS DOING! It's almost like joining the Family.) After all, Arthur is really joining us in spirit, and the symbolism of the flesh is merely symbolic in the flesh, the outward works, the manifestation of faith. He is showing his faith by his works‚ see? (Maria:

47. (HE IS ACCEPTING JESUS! We told him it was Jesus, we told him outright the very first thing! We didn't beat around the bush like we did with Brian and only lead up to it, but we said right off, "We are bringing you love in Jesus' name!") Do you remember the poem he wrote back then, "The Odd Couple"—you remember don't you?—That's Arthur! Arthur is just accepting by faith, and his works manifest it.

48. BRIAN IS REJECTING BY WORKS, and his lack of works manifest his lack of faith, see? Isn't it amazing? It's the most amazing spiritual parallel! What a book this is going to make! Well, thank You Lord‚ thank You Lord! (Maria: It's just like Brian is hopeless! Even I can't make him—he refuses to accept that. I said, "Can't you by happy even for just a couple of hours while I'm here at least?" And he said, "Well maybe, yeah, I think so."

49. (AND I SAID, "NOW ARE YOU HAPPY?"—WHEN WE FINISHED MAKING LOVE.)—But it's just like the sinner enjoys his misery! (Maria: So he said‚ "Well, I can't say I am happy, but I am relaxed.") He is going to have a bloody head rather than to bow it! He enjoys being bloodied more than bowing! Think of it! He enjoys being bloodied more than bowing! Isn't that something? That's what it really amounts to, because they enjoy that stiff–necked selfishness! Even if it bloodies their heard, it's better than having to bow it! It's horrible!

50. WHAT AN ILLUSTRATION TO THE SINNER and to the world today who are all crazy for sex and all that kind of love. Here we are giving him a concrete example in terms they can understand, in a picture they can comprehend, by a literal illustration of the love of God and how crazy anybody is to reject it! See? Isn't it amazing? What an illustration! Wow, this is going to be the hottest Letter we've ever got out! (Maria: Yes, this tape.) Oh Lord help us, my Lord, my Lord!

51. WELL, ANYHOW‚ HE SATISFIED YOU IN THE LIVING ROOM CHAIR, AND THEN WHAT? (Maria: Then he said, "Would you like to do this for me?" And I said‚ "Yes." So we retired to the bedroom.) Even the way he puts his wording is as though it's not his fault, it is all her idea. (Maria: Yes, like on the phone: He said, "Well‚ if you want to, come over.") In other words he wants her to do the asking and her to do the initiating, everything, all the way, so he can then say, "Well, she begged me to, she wanted to, she did it, it was all her idea." See?

52. INSTEAD OF HAVING TO HUMBLE HIMSELF and confess that he had the need and that he was asking for it, because then he would have to be thankful, he winds up thinking she ought to be thankful for him because after all she wanted it, she asked for it, she came, she did it and so, "Thank me!" It's just the opposition. (Maria: Every time I mentioned I wanted to help him, he ridiculed the idea.)

53. WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH AN EXPERIMENT, an amazing and most remarkable experiment—almost like a clinical experiment in this thing! Here is the actual illustration of the love of God It's just like a clinical experiment in illustrating the love of God in terms the world should understand, right?

54. EVEN THE PICTURE OF JESUS ON THE CROSS HAS LOST ITS EMOTIONAL EFFECT ON MOST PEOPLE. They can look on it without even being moved: "So what! He's a crucifix, He's hanging on the cross! We've always seen Him doing that!" They don't sense the tremendous love, they don't sense the sacrifice, they don't sense the suffering, they don't sense what He did for them at all, it doesn't even move them anymore!

(To be continued in Part 2: "JESUS AND SEX!"—Don't miss it!)

Copyright (c) 1998 by The Family