Everlasting Shame & Contempt

Dad
May 6, 2003

—By DadDO 284211/92

1. I think there are lots of born-again Christians who fight us, because they have been lied to & deceived & they don't know the Truth. A lot of people joined in crying for Jesus to be crucified because some well-paid rabble-rousers called "sons of Belial" & whatnot in the Bible were paid by the priesthood to start yelling‚ "Crucify Him!" And you know how crowds are‚ the mob spirit; people start yelling just because everybody else is yelling. And in a way a lot of the Christians have done that when it comes to us. They've started yelling at us & criticising us just because that's all they've ever heard or read. They don't really know anything about us firsthand, & have never really met us or known us.

2. However, there are some bitter enemies who in the past have known us & lived for years with the Family, like Deborah & others‚ of whom the Lord says‚ "If these shall fall away, it shall be impossible to renew them to repentance." (See Heb.6:4–10.) The Holiness people believe that means they've been saved, but then they've gotten lost & will go to Hell. We cannot accept this, since we believe that the Bible clearly states that once we become the Lord's child, we will always remain His child. "I give unto them eternal life & they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand." "Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out." "If any man's work shall be burned‚ he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved." (Jn.10:28; 6:37; 1Cor.3:15.)

3. Therefore‚ I have taken this Scripture in Hebrews 6:4-10 to mean that if they were truly saved & knew the Truth & yet went back, fell away—& the Lord says in the Last Days there shall come a great falling away (2Th.2:3; 1Tim.4:1–3)—they're still saved, but "shall suffer loss." They were really Christians, but misled, deceived or offended. Something caused them to be offended & they turned against us bitterly, like Deb & some of our enemies now. So the most optimistic I can be is that they became offended & bitter, with a root of bitterness which took them so far away that they could even do the horrible things that Deborah & her ilk have done. And they're in such a blind, bitter rage against us that the Devil has almost possessed them.

4. Even if they were actually saved, they have just become terribly deceived & perverted, & that fulfils that Scripture there in the 6th Chapter of Hebrews. They've known & they've seen & they've even tasted of the Spirit, & if these shall fall away, it shall be impossible to renew them again to repentance. As I said, the Holiness people say that means they're lost. I say, & my feeling is & my hope is, that if they were really Christians, then they really were saved. And the Holiness people say that of course they were really Christians. It's obvious from that passage in Hebrews 6 that they couldn't have had all that & known all that without being Christians.

5. The verse says it shall be "impossible to renew them again to repentance." What does repentance mean?—Change of mind. Metanoia is the word, literally. They've gone so far that they can't change their minds, they can't change their way, they can't return to their former state of faith, dedication or helpfulness to others. So all God can do is just let them die or destroy them.

6. And He says "some shall be raised to shame & everlasting contempt!"—Dan.12:2. Think of it! That is perdition & punishment enough for a formerly dedicated Christian—or one who once had faith—to find that he has forever transgressed to where it is impossible to make him change his mind & renew him to repentance, so that God has to let him go on his way till death. His cup of iniquity was full so God took him, or he dies or is destroyed in order to stop him or her.

7. So that is my most optimistic viewpoint of that Scripture & of those people. Let's hope they were saved & let's hope God in His mercy will forgive them, even if He has to destroy them. Paul says, "Destroy the body that the spirit might be saved!"—1Cor.5:5. Think of that! They were so bad, God had to destroy them, just like those enemies we have now. And yet God says they can be saved. But they can't be renewed, they can't be changed, they'll never be brought back to the former state. They will have lost their reward, they will have lost all claim on many of the promises, etc. (see Eze.3:20; Rev.3:11), & they will live in a constant state of shame & contempt. (See also Isa.66:5; 1Jn.2:28.)

8. As I used to say, they'll probably be down in the basement of Heaven shining shoes! Imagine! Heaven would almost be Hell to those people, to have to live with God & God's people after what they've done to Him & to them! It would almost be torment! That's punishment enough to realise what they missed‚ what they did, & how they are now the lowest of the low in the Heavenly City, if they get there at all.—That's if these people who've become backsliders were really saved.

9. God's Word doesn't say the backsliders are lost. In fact, He even says, "I am married to the backslider."—Jer.3:14. It's like a wife who has deserted her husband. That's a pretty serious thing. They have deserted the Lord! They've known Him & believed in Him‚ but they have deserted Him & His Work & His people, & even fought against us. But the Lord says‚ "I'm married to the backslider. She's a bad woman, she's sinned against Me‚ she's lied about Me‚ she's worked against Me, but because she at one time received Me, I'm married to her & I'll have to save her & not send her to Hell." But she's going to have some pretty unhappy times in Heaven‚ considering the shame & the reproach & the contempt she will have to suffer.

10. I just don't know what the state of those people is, only God knows! Right now it's almost hard to believe that they were ever saved, & they're fighting the Devil's own battle against us‚ & being used by the Devil. But it certainly seemed as though they knew the Lord & had received Jesus when they were with us, so maybe one of these days they'll wake up in everlasting shame & contempt & realise how wrong they were.—And then when they have to live with us in Heaven, they'd almost rather be in Hell! I think I've said that before somewhere, that Heaven would be Hell for some people to have to be that close to God & His people.—Like the old joke when the guy said, "Heaven sounds great, but when it comes to old pals, there's nothing like the other place!"—Ha!

11. So we don't know now, but one of these days we'll know, "even as also we are known."—1Cor.13:12. PTL! TYL!

Can Backslidden Christians Be Possessed?

12. I think [some backslidders] have been completely taken over by the Devil, & then went completely back to where they were totally denying the Truth & fighting to destroy the very thing that they had once given their lives for. (Maria: That means they're possessed‚ doesn't it?) I'd say more or less, yes. (Maria: I don't think it's 100% clear in the Bible whether backslidden Christians—formerly dedicated, devoted to the Lord—can be possessed or whether they're just oppressed or obsessed. But either way, they're taken over by the Enemy & used for his purposes. Are there any cases in the Bible of people who were dedicated, devoted to the Lord & then went back all the way & yielded completely to the Devil?)

13. The most classic case is where the fellow cleaned his house, got rid of the devil & it was all swept & garnished & all cleaned up, but apparently he didn't get filled with the Spirit—the Spirit, the Holy Spirit. So the demon went & got seven more wicked than himself & came back, "and the last state of that man was worse than the first!"—Luk.11:24-26. (Maria: It seems like Judas might have been an example of someone who was the Lord's, & then because of a deliberate wrong decision somewhere along the line, he sold out to the Devil.)

14. Judas was completely possessed of the Devil! In the original Greek it says, "One of you is the Devil.—Satan."—John 6:70; Luk.22:3. (See ML #2054:40.) He was completely taken over. (Maria: And it doesn't seem that Jesus would have chosen him as one of His disciples if he hadn't been saved, right?) That's always another question. He said, "Have I not chosen you & yet one of you is the Devil?" (Maria: But does that mean he could've become the Devil at the end & not been that way all along? Afterwards he repented, & the Devil himself wouldn't have repented, right?) He repented in remorse, & he hung himself. (Maria: So that sounds like he was temporarily possessed, right?—But really possessed & not just oppressed or whatever. It's a difficult subject, I don't think anybody exactly knows.) It's a very difficult subject.

15. I know I have said in the past that I didn't think it was possible for someone who is really a Christian & filled with the Holy Spirit to be possessed. They're not likely to be possessed. More often they're probably obsessed or oppressed & can sure be used as a real tool to do the Devil's dirty work! The Devil harasses them & gets in & leads them to do some pretty bad things, but it's rather rare that he takes over completely. For a Christian it's rather rare, let's put it that way. (Maria: Probably if that person makes a definite decision against the Lord & to just give everything to the Enemy, then they could be.) Oh‚ they make marvellous tools for the Devil! And whether people are possessed or oppressed or obsessed, it's rather difficult to tell the difference sometimes, since the symptoms can be so much the same.

16. Of course‚ it all starts‚ as we said before, with pride & self, just like it did with Satan. Every one of these people who have become the greatest backsliders leading the forces of our enemies & betraying us to our enemies have fallen the same way Satan did. It started out with pride, they wanted to be more important than they were. They thought we didn't exalt them sufficiently, so they went to our enemies who did—as they will for awhile, as long as they're useful. But the enemies will eventually abandon them when they're through with them, like they did Judas. Then comes the horrifying part!—Their awful end!—"Everlasting shame & contempt!"—God help us all to be loyal & true to Jesus & His Work!—How are you?